6th Plenary Session
Introduction from Chronology
The session took place, as usual, in 10 Downing St and started at 12
noon.
After arguments over breaches in the Truce and King George V’s response
to Pope Benedict XV, the negotiators got down to discussing defence.
More Detail
The session started with a heated discussion on breaches to the Truce
(in particular the discovery of a bomb factory in Cardiff and guns in Hamburg
destined for Ireland – see Oct-21-21/1 on the latter). Griffith replied that
“my conception is that the Truce does not mean that your military should
prepare during the Truce, and that we should not. We have done nothing since
the Truce which was not being done before the Truce.” Subsequently, Llyod George said that he could
not accept Griffith’s interpretation of the Truce. (This exchange demonstrates,
once again, how vague the terms of the Truce were and how they were open to
widely different interpretations – see, for example, Macready’s complaint on
Oct-09-21/4.)
The British also brought up de Valera's telegram to the Pope (see
Oct-20-21/2) where he stated that the Irish people owed no allegiance to
Britain's king. Llyod George said the telegram “deals with the very issues in
controversy” and he went on to say that “it will make our task almost
impossible”. Griffith replied that “Mr.
De Valera only stated public facts. I should say that the message was called
for by the phrase in King George’s letter in which he refers to troubles in
Ireland. This could be taken to mean a
fight between Irishmen. The trouble is
not a trouble in Ireland, but is one between Ireland and Great Britain.”
The majority of this session was spent on defence. Collins put forward a paper arguing for
neutrality but Churchill said that Britain could not be sure that Ireland would
remain neutral and that, even if it did, it would pose great problems for
Britain in wartime. Collins said that a friendly and neutral Ireland
would be better than a hostile one. Chamberlain said that neutrality
would put it outside the Empire but Collins contended that the British Empire
was developing into a nation of free and independent states without centralised
control. Lloyd George admitted this but said that Britain could still not
be sure of Irish neutrality. He said that in the future Ireland might
move towards full Dominion status but that he would consider it irresponsible
for Britain to give Ireland the neutrality option at this stage. (See
Clause 6 of the Treaty where this germ of an idea got expression with regard to
coastal defence.) Griffith agreed to hand in, on the following Monday, Irish
proposals on a number of issues
The British delegation withdrew for consultation. When they came back,
Llyod George expressed pleasure that the Irish side were presenting a document
on Monday 24th October. He
said that it was essential that the document should define the Irish position
on allegiance to the Crown, entry into the Empire “freely and of her own
accord” and concessions of the necessary facilities to secure the “immunity of
[British] shores from attack by sea”.